A Former Protestant Priest's Case: Why Protestantism Falls Short of Christianity

Discussion · 30

Opinions are anonymous retellings of real comments from the original discussion. The same colour marks the same participant.

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• − opinion#127 ♥ 44

  "I dismiss Protestantism based on ten minutes of bad-faith arguments that don't describe actual Christians. Also, buy my supplements with my code so you can fast without feeling hunger or sacrificing anything." Still waiting for the day Moses actually debates or discusses differences with any of the many reasonable Protestant Christians out there.
• − opinion#111 ♥ 34

  This says more about modern American culture than about Protestantism specifically.
• − opinion#107 ♥ 20

  I just messaged my pastor about my battle with addiction. I had four years sober, relapsed, and can't get back on track. All he did was send me names of other churches that hold meetings — and that was it. Nothing else. It broke my heart.
• − opinion#119 ♥ 18

  As a Protestant disillusioned with Protestantism and exploring Catholicism and Orthodoxy, I agree I can't stand these things — but they weren't generally true of the Protestant churches I've attended. In fact, my experience is that holiness of life seems more common among my Protestant friends than among any Catholics or Orthodox I've met, which genuinely saddens me, since I do hope to join one of those churches eventually.
• − opinion#109 ♥ 16

  I'm a Protestant at an ACNA Anglican parish. Out of respect for your office as a priest, I don't expect my perspective to carry much weight, but I offer it in brotherly love. What struck me is that every point you raised about strawmanning Protestantism was something I fully agreed with. By God's grace, my parish does exactly what you described: full financial transparency — I've even sat in vestry meetings reviewing budgets and fund allocation. We practice church discipline, and I spend plenty of time with my priest outside of services. I understand wanting to expose real problems, but many of your points rest on anecdotal experience, especially given the heavy Baptist presence in your area (I'm in Ft. Worth, so I get it). I don't think it's wise to risk bearing false witness by caricaturing an entire body of Christians when there are arguably just as many pious, faithful, cross-bearing believers as in Eastern Orthodoxy. Your content has edified me, and I pray your ministry is richly blessed.
• − opinion#133 ♥ 16

  This guy treats nondenominationalism as if it were the entirety of Protestantism.
• − opinion#106 ♥ 15

  The part around 5:20 about people spending real time with you hit home for me. I had known my pastor for 15 years before converting to Orthodoxy, yet within a few months of meeting the priest who baptized me, I'd already spent far more time with him than with that pastor. The family-like, communal life in Orthodoxy is honestly one of the most beautiful things I've discovered since becoming Orthodox.
• − opinion#122 ♥ 15

  That final point about Protestants rewriting Christ's words is dead on. I've lost count of the times I've heard Protestants say, "Actually, what He meant was the exact opposite of what He said." I usually ask how they can be sure their reading is correct, and all they have is subjectivity: "Scripture is clear" (obviously not, given thousands of denominations) or "the Holy Spirit led me" (as if Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses don't claim the same — that proves nothing). I see this mostly in Free Grace and Baptist circles. Before I left Protestantism, my pastor used to say "doctrine determines direction," and I fully agree — if you believe nothing you do can cost you your salvation, naturally you'll live as if there's no Judgment.
• − opinion#123 ♥ 14

  Many major Protestant bodies — Presbyterians, Reformed, Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists — have highly structured, transparent governance. In Presbyterian churches, elected elders govern and the whole congregation votes on the budget yearly. Most conservative Protestant pastors insist on serious premarital counseling and won't marry couples shacking up during the engagement. The rest of what Mr. Moses says is just anecdotal fallacy, and he offers no real critique of Protestant theology itself.
• − opinion#108 ♥ 13

  As a Protestant, I agree with the problems described in this video, but calling all of this "Protestantism" is a bit of a sweeping generalization. These are genuinely bad experiences, and I wouldn't want to attend such a church either, but that's not what Protestantism actually is. I get that it's hard to generalize since Protestantism is so broad with all its branches. These are real issues that need addressing, but a true Protestant church wouldn't tolerate any of this. And no, I have no interest in becoming Orthodox, just so nobody brings it up.
• − opinion#116 ♥ 12

  Around 1:41 — at my first Divine Liturgy this shocked me: I flipped to the back of the service pamphlet and saw a budget. Raised Protestant, I literally never knew where my tithe went.
• − opinion#132 ♥ 12

  As a Lutheran, I believe this applies mostly, if not exclusively, to Baptists, Pentecostals, and nondenominational churches.
• − opinion#128 ♥ 11

  As a Southern Baptist, I agree with about 98% of what you're saying, but I think you're misunderstanding Protestantism — you seem to be looking only at megachurches and assuming they represent us all. The "churches" described here we'd consider wayward at best, heretical at worst. On finances, our church does quarterly budget reviews with membership votes on changes. The theological differences deserve a far deeper, less black-and-white conversation. I'm Protestant, and I long to know Christ and grow in communion with Him daily; I keep men around me who push me to grow and hold me accountable. Christ's love isn't reserved for people who agree with you on every point of theology.
• − opinion#129 ♥ 10

  "Rampant sexual sin": the first strip poker game I ever saw was at an unofficial after-church party when I was about 20. The girls were attractive, so at the time I thought it was fine. Hooking up among the singles was the norm rather than the exception, and I saw this across several Baptist and nondenominational churches — hardly a one-off.
• − opinion#113 ♥ 8

  Greetings, Father. I'm from Transcarpathia, Ukraine. My grandmother and father repented and turned from a dark life to new life in Christ about 20 years ago. I fully agree with what you say — there's no excuse for living in sin when we are a new creation. But I want to point out that the sins you mention, especially sexual sin, the absence of calls to repentance, and priests' indifference to people's sins, are widespread among Orthodox churches and Orthodox Christians here. That's precisely why my Orthodox-born parents left and joined a Protestant confession — the church was dead, and when they repented and read Scripture, they couldn't find what they were seeking. I'm not trying to discredit the Orthodox Church or promote Protestantism. My point is that most Christians are Christian in name only. Most Ukrainian churches are Orthodox, and most Orthodox people don't live like Christians; in the USA most are Protestant. Sadly, true Christians are a minority regardless of confession — that's simply how it is.
• − opinion#131 ♥ 7

  As a Protestant, this makes me sad. The cross is central at every church I've attended — nothing but the blood. Repentance is the call of every sermon. And yes, there's sin in the church, but that's true of every church.
• − opinion#134 ♥ 6

  Well... that's a massive generalization. Sure, those problems are common in many denominations and congregations, but there are MANY Protestant churches that fail on none of those points. Love your content though, big fan — keep it up, Father.
• − opinion#112 ♥ 5

  It's honestly wild that you can't even seem to tell Protestants and Evangelicals apart. On top of that, I know non-denominational churches with complete financial transparency. Half this video is anecdote, and the other half is basically "shut up, I'm right."
• − opinion#114 ♥ 5

  As a Protestant, I agree with much of what you said, with one caveat: points 1–4 criticize failures of people and the churches they run, not the Protestant faith itself. You're right that many Protestant churches lack open books, don't call people to repent, and neglect the sacraments — but that's a failure of leadership. I don't believe baptism is required for salvation, though I do think one should be baptized soon after conversion. Ephesians 1:4 says we were chosen before the foundation of the world — we're saved beforehand. Point five is a genuine Catholic/Protestant difference: I believe the bread and cup are symbolic, not a literal partaking of body and blood. Your criticisms of many Protestant churches are fair, and I'd add that many aren't truly churches at all, and many professing Christians have false conversions because there's no repentance from sin.
• − opinion#135 ♥ 4

  Funny enough, as a Protestant I agree with this video. Protestantism gets a bad rap because every church that isn't Roman Catholic or Orthodox gets labeled Protestant. But I attend a genuinely Protestant church where none of these problems exist. Great video — I'm just frustrated by how many bad "Protestant" churches are out there.
• − opinion#110 ♥ 3

  Father, thank you. I came to Christ only within the last year and am now deeply involved in an evangelical church, but I wrestle with so much of what you discuss. I struggle enormously with sin, and I dread being told my struggle means I'm too "works-based." The claim that salvation and sanctification are separate things makes me wonder what's wrong with me. I've built genuine friendships there and don't question anyone's sincerity, yet I constantly feel like I don't belong in that world. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.
• − opinion#115 ♥ 3

  Father, blessing. I agree about sexual sin and the lack of repentance. The Korean church I attended was actually a cult, but it followed the Protestant business model and had lay-led programs addressing people's problems. Still, I never once had lunch or any personal relationship with the head pastor — only with assistant pastors. As a catechumen, by contrast, I've spent so much time with my priest that I casually talk to him about anything — hobbies, movies — and I've even had dinner at his home. That relationship has genuinely made me a better person.
• − opinion#117 ♥ 3

  As a Protestant who enjoys this channel, my input probably doesn't count for much, but the fastest-growing churches in the US (and even more abroad) are the evangelical, charismatic ones focused on direct mystical union with God. The problem, as everyone knows, is that most Protestant theology is frankly ridiculous, and our mystical systems are subjective and experiential with no agreed framework for encountering the divine. Eastern Orthodoxy's mystical tradition puts anything we Protestants have devised to shame. My advice: lean into it, and hard. If you could consolidate your many mystical traditions into a system that brings people into direct encounter with God in a replicable, semi-predictable way, interest in this is higher than I've ever seen. You'd be the fastest-growing church on earth — and I'd certainly join. God be with you.
• − opinion#125 ♥ 3

  Straw men... I usually appreciate the teaching here, but this topic always gets misrepresented. I'd expect smarter analysis — say, critiquing Protestant attendees — but if you want to refute Protestantism, argue against its theology. Is there some truth here? Sure, but we know who mixes truth with lies.
• − opinion#130 ♥ 3

  Brother, this is a sad attack on fellow Christians. Your "evidence" that Protestantism is false amounts to secondhand stories from converts complaining about unnamed pastors plus a few people you saw online. Yes, shallow churches and cultural Christians exist — but I'd argue that in Catholic and Orthodox countries more people live in sins like premarital sex precisely because Christianity there became cultural. Don't hate Protestantism over people who lived it badly; I've met Orthodox and Catholics who do the same. And in my experience Protestant churches preach the Gospel most faithfully — every one I've attended stressed repentance and the Gospel, some better than others, which is why I'm at a Reformed church now. Spreading the claim that Protestantism ignores the cross, the Bible, or sound leadership is false and harmful to God's kingdom. Praying for you.
• − opinion#118 ♥ 1

  This video unlocked a memory from growing up Protestant in a Methodist church in a small southern Missouri town. Even as a teenager I could sense things were "off" about what they believed and how they behaved (mostly nice people though, no disrespect). One thing I'd completely forgotten: when the minister was negotiating his contract, he demanded nearly $100k a year — insane, considering this was 20 years ago in a poor, isolated area — a brand-new vehicle of his choosing for each of his three kids at 16 (pickup trucks, naturally, though they had zero use for them), and he flat-out refused to visit anyone in prison. Yes — one of the very things Jesus commands us to do for the least of these, this "man of the cloth" explicitly refused.
• − opinion#120 ♥ 1

  The last point really resonated — it bothered me throughout 30+ years in Evangelicalism. We spent roughly 90% of the time cycling through Paul's epistles while basically ignoring Jesus' very clear teachings, which utterly undermine ideas like Sola Fide. I remember figures like Tullian Tchividjian outright saying the Sermon on the Mount was just a rhetorical device to make you give up on trying to "save yourself." Well, as the Lord said of such teachers, "you will know them by their fruit" — and the rest is history. As an Orthodox Christian, no longer feeling compelled to hand-wave away Christ's teachings is a tremendous relief.
• − opinion#121 ♥ 1

  As a Protestant looking into Orthodoxy, that point about pastors being disconnected from their people really rings true. When my grandmother died, we held a service at her church — the first time I'd been there in ages. Afterwards I approached the pastor, and he just brushed me aside. It seemed so wrong that a pastor wouldn't offer comfort to grieving people.
• − opinion#124 ♥ 1

  Protestantism tells me I'm fine — just trust Jesus and try harder. But I have deep problems and need REAL help: not therapy, but a real framework for my life. In this past year of exposure to Orthodoxy I've received so many blessings and found genuine love and community. I hadn't made it to my parish in a month or two, and when I returned today it was striking how many of the expectant mothers had given birth — some babies already baptized. I felt my absence without feeling crushed by guilt; everyone was simply gracious and glad to have our family back.
• − opinion#126

  Taking the points one by one: 1. That problem exists in ALL churches, and it's merely anecdotal — I could name Orthodox parishes run basically by gangsters. It's a very American phenomenon, and I can cite counterexamples in every tradition. 2. Puritanism and Pietism are everywhere. Yes, we want marriage, but the social conditions for teenage arranged marriages no longer exist. I married in an ROCOR Orthodox church — hardly "liberal" — and my spiritual father and confessor, an abbot no less, actually required us to live together, then marry civilly, before crowning us. 3. Lack of repentance is universal, and every church must call for it — I agree entirely with Father Moses there — but again it's anecdotal; I know Reformed pastors who preach repentance and Orthodox priests who commune non-Orthodox and skip confession. Calling people to repentance is every pastor's job. 4. That point is emotional rhetoric. Every Christian is called to sanctification by carrying the Cross; that's not a Protestant malady — as Father Moses says, it's simply not Christianity. And no tradition is 100% Christian in life and mindset. 5. True, Eucharist and Baptism are the chief means of grace — but again anecdotal: I know Orthodox who don't believe they receive the Body and Blood, and Protestants who commune with the unworthiness St. Paul describes. Overall these points describe American-style…